As a consequence of the pandemic, many people, but especially women, were confronted with the reality of their careers.
Do they really enjoy it? Is it fulfilling? Is this what they wanted to do for the rest of their life?
For many the answer was no, but how do they move on from the careers they know? Liza Rogers, founder of the Womens Real Estate Network, joins me today to shed some light on the power of collaboration and the power of women in real estate. You don’t have to do it all by yourself. Finding a team that can work with you and support you in building a better life for yourself can help you cultivate a more focused mindset and be more successful.
Listen in as Liza shares the success she has seen through women collaborating in real estate investing, and how investing in women means investing in your communities.
About Liza Rogers:
Liza Rogers is the founder of Women’s Real Estate Network. For 25 years Liza has been passionately involved in what is now being called “the cohousing movement”. Liza’s deep and diverse background in tourism and events has included leading groups on world-famous European river cruises, managing Eco guesthouses in Bondi Beach Australia, and being employed by two Olympic Games. On her journey she discovered everything about financing, joint ventures, and buying real estate. Liza has a wealth of information and wisdom about real estate sectors both inside and outside Canadian borders.
As the Founder and Leader of WREN, Liza feels compelled to provide opportunities for others, especially women, to find their own creative and collaborative ways to learn about and prosper from real estate and related markets. She is currently in the process of purchasing a portfolio of investment properties with a group of women and has just partnered on the purchase of 150 acres of subdividable land near Victoria, BC.
To learn more you can find Liza and WREN on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and Meetup.
Mentioned In This Episode:
- From Ordinary to Extraordinary: Success Stories from Women Investing in Real Estate
- WREN
- Better Than Today
- Find more Hope resources
Transcription:
Lindsay Recknell 0:03 Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Hope Motivates Action podcast. I’m your host Lindsay Recknell. And I am so looking forward to introducing you to this week’s guest, Liza Rogers. my conversation with Liza left me feeling super pumped and I think you will too. For 25 years Liza has been passionately involved in what is now being called the cohousing movement, lies. His deep and diverse background in tourism and events has included leading groups on world famous European river cruises, managing eco guest houses in Bondi Beach, Australia and being employed by two Olympic Games. On her journey, she discovered everything about financing, joint ventures and buying real estate. Liza has a wealth of information and wisdom about real estate sectors both inside and outside the Canadian borders.
Lindsay Recknell 0:47 As the founder and leader of WREN, the women’s real estate network lies it feels compelled to provide opportunities for others, especially women to find their own creative and collaborative ways to learn about and prosper from real estate and related markets. She is currently in the process of purchasing a portfolio of investment properties with a group of women. And she has just partnered on the purchase of 150 acres of subdividable land near Victoria BC. How inspirational is that? As a reminder, if you’re interested in any of the books, resources and tools I mentioned in this episode, all the links you’ll need can be found in the show notes of your favorite podcast player, or head to the blog and pod page of my website, www dot expert in hope calm, and you’ll find them all there too. I truly believe that the future will be better than today. By taking action over the things we can control conversations like this really reinforced that hope. So without any more delay, let’s get to it.
Lindsay Recknell 1:42 Hello, I am so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you for joining us.
Liza Rogers 1:47 Well, it is great to be here. Lindsay, I’m a fan. I think your podcast is great and and hope hope and and women’s empowerment. And all the things that you’re talking about are the things that we need for the future. So So great job, and thank you for doing this with me.
Lindsay Recknell 2:02 Thank you very, very much. I mean, I couldn’t agree more hope is kind of a thing. And it has had it is hugely influential in the lives of women, as are you. So I’d love to hear your story of how you have used hope to motivate action in the lives of yourself and other people.
Liza Rogers 2:17 Well, thanks. Yes, we could talk about hope all day. And I think you and I were chatting recently about sort of the most recent sort of bout of hope that we’ve had coming out of the pandemic and and me gathering nine other women together to write a book, and part of my story in the book being about failing in Australia, and using that as as tuition and coming back and hoping that things would get better and also knowing that they would and having faith and having confidence and so huge, huge thing to be talking about. And I love talking about these opportunities. So in the context of the pandemic and the news that’s coming out right now, one of the things that we did was as a group, there were so many of us who were seeing that there were so many women who were really struggling to do something other than take their head out of the sand, right it was the pandemic was coming and the end of the world was coming and I’m going to stick my head in the sand and not really pull it out until this is all over. And as we know, we can’t do that we have to keep moving forward, we have to look at opportunities and and we have to find hope.
Lindsay Recknell 3:31 And so what we were finding was there were so many women who were continuing to do great things, and finding hope, looking towards the end of the crisis, looking at the things that were coming out of the pandemic. So working from home, traveling to work less, really looking closely at the jobs that they were doing. And deciding Is this what I want to do for the rest of my life is now the time with all you know, government subsidies and being as I mentioned, working from home, is this the time to really look at look at my life and reflect and think Is this an opportunity to make some big changes. So so hope is is such a huge thing. And for me personally, it has always been something that has led me to whatever I’m doing next. So as I mentioned coming out of Australia and being hopeful that’s when I landed in Victoria were a place where I had never lived before that I would find new friends and find a job and that I would have the energy and the enthusiasm to carry me forward. And then with the book that’s been a being able to witness the the writings of nine women who have had struggles at times in their lives and have had to be hopeful and and seeing where they are now and it’s just been it’s been such a journey. And we could we could probably talk about hope For weeks, couldn’t we?
Lindsay Recknell 5:01 Well, it’s kind of the thing I like to talk about the most. So yeah, we absolutely could. And I love I love that you’ve collaborated with other people. Because as I, as we both know, I’m sure, hope is contagious. And so when we hang out with other hopeful people, that helps to carry us for it, and I also believe, so my definition of hope is that the future will be better than today, when we take action over the things we can control. And I know how much action that you’ve especially been taking lately, when it comes to women in real estate. Can we talk a little bit about this network you’ve built to support yourself and other women to take some action in the real estate industry?
Liza Rogers 5:44 Absolutely, yes, it’s my favorite topic. So talking about hope, you know, for me, I looked at real estate and real estate investing as something that I would be able to figure out a way to access and that I could make work. And so I think we talked about it, I kind of stumbled upon real estate education and started learning about investing and the HGTV romance and, you know, watching the flipping shows, and fan marrow from the US and Scott McGillivray here up here in Canada, but realizing that there were so many of this sort of this industry in this whole investing industry that women weren’t taking part in, and women invest much differently. And part of that has to do with the hope that women have. And by that when you invest in a woman, you’re actually investing in her community. So it’s a it’s a much different investment when you invest with women or for women. The other kind of side of that is the collaboration side that you touched on at the beginning. And that is, there are so many women who are not getting married, who, their, their, their, their marriage may end in divorce. They’re out living men, and so they might live for 30 years past their husband. And so they have to have hope that they’re going to have a great life. And they have to create it. And collaboration is the absolute best way to create the life that you want. And so Wren was founded out of that idea, ran being the women’s real estate network ran was founded out of that idea that together, we’re better collaborating is key. And real estate investing is a way that we can move all of us forward together. And we’re just seeing that happening in real time. And on a bigger scale. So more, more things are happening more quickly, and more things are coming to us because of the action we’re taking. So it’s just been incredible to see that and, and of course, you know, again, going back to the book, you know, we with with Ren and all of these, these women in this network that are positively contributing to the lives of themselves, their families and their community through real estate investing. The book came out of that, because it is such a powerful tool. And it’s a way for us to create a lifestyle that has such a positive impact on on not just our own bank accounts, because you know, let’s face it, if you do real estate investing, well, you can make a pretty good contribution to your own bank account. But there’s also so much more that you can create for your family or friends in your community.
Lindsay Recknell 8:27 You tell us the name of the book, we’ll link to in the show notes, but tell us the new course. Unknown Speaker 8:32 So the book is called from ordinary to extraordinary. It’s a bold title, right? And and we really wanted to to be bold, I’m encouraging women in particular to be bold. And and I wanted to really be clear about the fact that that all of the women in the book have identified as ordinary and in some cases, and sometimes in our lives, we have felt less than ordinary. And Tiffany does a great job of describing that in the book, how she felt less than ordinary and how was she going to write a book about being extraordinary if at times she didn’t even feel ordinary and so it’s not a bunch of women who have had overnight success and who who you know, just are becoming wealthy and it’s it’s just not like that at all these women have gone through struggles they have, they have worked hard with their teams, they have built their tribes they have overcome injuries and and they have overcome so many different things. And now, you know, we get to say it’s extraordinary so it’s it’s more like I don’t necessarily think of ourselves as extraordinary but But what we’ve done is extraordinary and and the message in the book is that if we can do it, so can you and it really is a message of hope it’s it’s it really is. Lindsay Recknell 9:52 Yeah, I can’t even wait to to read the book and also to get to know some of the other women and you and I have talked one of the things things that we’re going to do in the new year in 2022 is a collaboration so that so that we can serve the audience to be you guys that are listening so that you can learn more about these women. And also to, to, to hold on to their hope to get to, you know, increase your hope by hearing the hopeful stories of these other people. So look forward to that. That’s definitely coming in the new year, we’re gonna make that happen. Um, can you tell us it’s contagious? Liza Rogers 10:28 It really, totally hope is contagious. And so if we get nine or 10 people talking about hope it’s, it’s gonna have a pretty awesome impact. Lindsay Recknell 10:36 Yes, I 100% believe that. Tell. So you have done some extraordinary things. And you shared with me some of the projects that you have done together as the as, as your network, can you share a little bit about the cool projects you have going on? Lindsay Recknell 10:51 Yeah, so we were super excited, because as I mentioned this, a lot of a lot of coming out of the pandemic, for so many people. It’s been Oh, my gosh, you know, what do we do and what we’ve really been doing is really moving forward and taking action. So as I mentioned, you know, women are out living men and women have to create this great lifestyle for themselves. And so on the really fun side of things, we’re getting a group of women together to buy a property in Mexico. So we’ll have our own personal timeshare, it’ll be our property that we’ll use for retreats and workshops. And, you know, we’ll offer it up for organizations to use at a lower or no costs, so that we can give back to the community. So that’s something that we’re doing, and I’m going to Mexico for the winter for a month. So we’ll be looking at properties down there, we’ve got a few in mind that we’re, we’re looking at, so that’s going to be really fun. On the other end. We’ve had women in the book, Darlene, for example, who’s on the East Coast, she’s super passionate about seniors housing, and so she has built seniors homes, in the city of Monckton and in the surrounding areas, and she has provided housing for seniors where there was a housing shortage. And she did that a number of years ago. And now she’s, she’s going to be getting ready to help us do that, again, in the future, we’re going to be ready to do something like that, again, probably on the East Coast. And here in Victoria, towards the end of next year. One of our other great authors, Sherry has built over 100 rental houses in the City of Victoria, actually, in Langford just outside of Victoria. So in the greater Victoria region, and provided housing for, for, you know, hundreds of people. And what we’re also doing is we’re looking at gathering a group of women who are going to be collaborating and building and developing housing, probably for women in need, or single women or women in transition to to give them safe, comfortable places to live. That is that is really centered around things that women need. And we’ll be looking at working on that in the new year. But we’ve got, there’s so many things going on that that our ladies are involved in. And it spans from passive investing, which is just getting your you know, getting your money invested in something that’s going to do better for you than it would in the bank. And all the way to us working together on projects. I mean, we just took in a family into one of our rental units that was fleeing an abusive relationship, and they desperately needed housing. So we, we furnished the property for them, we got them all kinds of furniture and all the kitchen stuff they needed and, and our community came together and bought them gift cards and everything they needed to and so they’re they’re set up now. And we’re really proud of everybody for being able to pitch in and do that. And we wouldn’t be able to do that if we weren’t taking care of ourselves and doing what we needed to do so that we could also then give back to the community. So that’s a big, big part of it
Lindsay Recknell 13:55 I mean, it just sounds incredible. And so, so much variety in in the the projects that you’re doing, it feels like the the people in your network, get to put forward I imagine get to put forward projects that they’re passionate about, and then the opportunity to have others rally around them to make that into a reality. And is that right?
Liza Rogers 14:18 That’s exactly it. Yeah, that’s exactly what happens. Right? I mean, there are some, some women in the group are really passionate about philanthropic projects. And so you know, we’re going to, we’re going to look at projects that have that kind of a spin on it. There’s others that are like, well, you know, there’s six of us who want to live outside the country half the year, so we’re going to buy a house, somewhere where half of us are going to live half the year. There’s those of us that are really passionate about working remotely, which we knew was going to become a big thing before the pandemic. But then going through the pandemic, the whole remote working philosophy has changed how we work dramatically and is going to continue to change that right as as smaller areas were Rural areas get more access to better internet, we’re going to see more people choosing to live the way we used to live, you know, 100 years ago, which is, you know, in a village where you knew everybody and, and the baker and the candlestick maker and the cheese maker were all you know, and of course, the the wine flowed on. So, I mean, I know it sounds idyllic, but we used to live in community. And one of the things that’s that the pandemic really highlighted is that loneliness has been as big of a pandemic as the actual COVID pandemic. And so people are meeting and looking for, you know, there’s that word again, hope, and they’re looking to their communities, to provide a lot of that for them. And so, housing and and living with people, and sharing each other’s journeys, instead of just like, you go to work for eight hours a day, and then you come back home, you know, co working, co housing, co living, traveling together. So that that’s, I’ve spent a lot of time on this one question, because you can see I’m so passionate about it. So yes, the whole co living and remote working movement is a huge driver. And then there’s just building housing in general. I mean, we in Canada, we have a housing shortage, we know we have a supply and demand issue all across the country, it’s driving prices up, it’s meaning that a lot of people can’t get into the market. And so people have to get into the market either creatively, with collaboration with friends and family, or we have to push our governments to to make it easier to build housing, so that developers will want to come to the table and build housing, because that is such a challenge right now, just to get an approval to build housing is just not hopeful at the municipal level. So we have to change that for sure. Lindsay Recknell 16:52 What all of it like the details, the technicalities, the approval, the finances, the legal, all of that stuff sounds ridiculously overwhelming to someone who is not in this space at all. Tell me how you overcome that with, you know, what’s your network? I imagine you must.
Liza Rogers 17:12 Well, I think the easiest way to say it is, you know, I have a team, right? And and and and if you’re going to be in business, or you’re going to be in real estate, I mean pretty much anything you do nowadays, you you’ve got to rely on a team. And and one of the first things I tell, especially women because women seem to think that they can do it all and that they need to do it all and you don’t. The first thing to do to have a healthier, wealthier, happier life is start delegating. And if you don’t have a housekeeper like that is the number one thing to get off of your plate, hire a housekeeper because when you can get that one thing off of your plate, then it’s like, Oh, I see how valuable my time is and how me doing housekeeping is not the best use of my skills and my time. And and that’s not to say anything against housekeepers, because we love housekeepers, we need housekeepers, Airbnbs. Need housekeepers, we need housekeepers, we need more people to to do this kind of work. So that people who can use their skills somewhere else like in accounting, or in building homes, or in being on the municipal panel, and helping these developments go through all of those things where we take what we specialize in, and delegate to people who specialize, which allows us to specialize, that just means that we work more efficiently. So having a team is is so important, and being able to delegate to those teams. I mean, for me, I’m the dreamer. Right? So dreamers typically don’t actually know how to do a lot of things. Don’t ask me to pick up a hammer, don’t ask me to do the accounting. But ask me to have a massive dream, and then figure out who I need on the team to pull it together. And I can do that all day long. And that’s really what we do. I mean, people say, Well, how are you doing all the things that you’re doing so well, I have a team with Ren. So we have the women’s real estate network team. And we have marketing people and social media people. And we have our members, and we have ambassadors, and we have people who look at the properties and everybody works together. And then in that team, we have our accountants, and we have our lawyers, and we have our Realtors, and all of those people know what it is we’re trying to do and can support us in that journey. And then the book has a team, right? I don’t know how to write a book. I didn’t know the first thing about writing a book, but then you learn about who you need to hire as an editor and publicist and media and distribution and who’s going to print it and What’s it supposed to look like graphics, all of those things. And so, having teams gives you the opportunity to share the risk and the reward. And it also elevates that key word And you know, the hope word again. Because when you get so many people involved in a project, you know, you get that mastermind effect, right, you get lots of people contributing, you get great skills, and you don’t have people like me wasting their time doing accounting, because you would not, you wouldn’t want me to do the books. So if I was doing my books on my business, I would hope that I would not go bankrupt. But knowing that I have a bookkeeper and an accountant, I know. And I can be hopeful that things are gonna go well, and so that’s again, you know, tying tying it into that key word. Having a team is so important and and just moves you forward in the direction that you want to go with so much more velocity, it’s, it’s, it makes such a difference. Lindsay Recknell 20:49 Well, in really taking advantage of the zones of excellence of, of the people that you’re working with, you know, which adds to more fulfillment, which adds to more value being brought and greater happiness. And that’s the end goal is to create that future better than today. Exactly. Liza Rogers 21:06 Yeah. I love it. Lindsay Recknell 21:07 What do you think the What have you found to be the most surprising outcome of this journey that you’ve been on?
Liza Rogers 21:15 So the most surprising, I mean, really, when it comes, I mean, there’s two, there’s two things, there’s a couple things that are surprising in terms of the the emotional, and then there’s the, the, the piece that needs to happen in the financial piece. And so they’re very different because one’s a tool. And and one is a while its vulnerability, I mean, we just, we just say it. So the the will, and I just, I just got goosebumps whenever I get goosebumps, right? That means the universe is saying you’re, you’re on the right track. That’s so. So the vulnerability piece has been, for me to be able to tell people that I’ve struggled, tell people that I have failed, tell people that, you know, I fallen down many times, and I look at that as my tuition. And and it’s not how many times you fall down, it’s how many times you get up. It’s the whole, you know, feeling the fear and doing it anyway, it’s hanging out on the skinny branches. And so the vulnerability piece is me expressing my vulnerability, has then attracted all of these other people who are also willing to be vulnerable. And the book really echoes that because almost, I mean, I shouldn’t say almost, I’m sure all of the chapters really do hint on that vulnerability piece, you know, Samina in a small way. I mean, Sherry’s chapter, you know, Cliff Notes is just unbelievable. Uh huh. And then others in a more subtle way, we write like Eva, moving from Calgary to Vancouver and being like, being from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond, and how that changes how you have to be vulnerable, and what you’ve got to put out there. So vulnerability has been a massive learning and, and empowerment to mean, it’s just been using vulnerability to, to its advantage. It’s just, it’s, it’s about being authentic, it’s about being who you are. And it’s about, you know, we don’t, we’re not always going to be at our best, we’re not always going to have balance. You know, one of the things that I say, people will hear me say often is a balance is bullshit, right? Like, if you’re trying to change the world, there isn’t going to be balanced. And, you know, if you’re trying to write a best selling book with with nine women, there’s going to be times when things are out of balance. And then you know, I get to go to Mexico and I get to reset the balance for a few weeks. But trying to you to do all of that with the with the with balance and without being vulnerable is almost impossible. So vulnerability, number one. And then the other biggest surprise is the amount of people willing to give us money. It’s like, you need money to buy real estate. And when you are doing your first couple of deals, and you want to joint venture with people, and you’ve got the team in place, but you maybe haven’t gone out and actually done it yet. It’s like nobody wants to, you know, nobody wants to lend you money. Nobody wants to invest in you. Nobody wants to help you. Everybody wants to see, you know, see you succeed first. And so they say it’s, you know, it’s harder to raise $10,000 than it is to raise a million. And that is so true. Because when you’re first getting started, it’s an uphill battle to convince people of what you’re doing. I mean, imagine me saying, Well, I’ve just created ran the women’s real estate network and we’re going to get women to collaborate together by properties that will impact themselves and their families and make make better lifestyles and empower women and people would look at me like what, I don’t get it. What and now, people see what we’re doing and see that we have you know 10 People who are buying four properties in Langley together We’ve got a property in Monkton under under contract to have like five or six people buy that together. So people see it now. So now dialing for dollars and saying, you know, hey, we’ve got this property under contract, do you want to invest? Now people say Yeah, can I can I have my $100,000 into you by Friday? And I’m like, Sure, no problem?
Lindsay Recknell 25:21 Well, yes, yes, you can.
Liza Rogers 25:23 Yes, absolutely, that will be just fine. So that’s a nit, there goes the goosebumps, again, there’s a massive surprise in that, right? Suddenly, people willing to invest in you, with you, alongside you. And, and actually, like, get into projects where your name and their name or our ANA, a house together, or a development together or a property together. And that has just been that’s like, I still, you know, when someone trusts you with their their hard earned cash, it’s a huge responsibility. And, and it shows the, the power of having this right team, and the people who get to know this team, and see what we’re doing and are like, Okay, I like that team. Right. And, and obviously, Renz not going to be for everybody, but it’s, it’s going out and finding those people who will let you be vulnerable, and finding that group where somebody wants to invest in you, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be cold, hard cash, you know, it could be knowledge, or it could be resource or is it? I mean, there’s so many things that aren’t just money, knowledge and resources of other kinds office space, you know, air miles points, right? I say, Hey, if you’re not using your mouse points, give them to an entrepreneur and let them use them to go and go to a conference that they can’t afford to go to yet, right. I mean, there’s so so many things that you can leverage. And yeah, the surprising one, for me has been the the number of people now willing to write the checks. It’s, yeah, it’s crazy.
Lindsay Recknell 27:01 Very cool. But you’ve worked hard. I’ve developed a quite the reputation. And I mean, like, I can see why that would be a thing. For sure. Unknown Speaker 27:10 I feel like I’ve already you’ve already answered this for me, but I would like to know anyhow, in a to wrap us all up today, Liza, what gives you hope? Oh, great question, Lindsey. What gives me hope, mostly, is the ability for people to recognize that we all really want the same thing. And when we love each other, come from a place of love, rather than a place of fear. And realize that we all really want the same things, which is love, trust, respect, and safety. That gives me hope that as we recognize that in each other, we can all move forward together. And I know that there are a lot of places that are struggling with with that right now. And and tolerance and understanding and sitting down and breaking bread with people you know, sharing a meal together. And getting into networks where there’s an affinity that attracts you to that group, but there are people in there who come from different cultures and backgrounds and different ages. That’s where I find the the juice and the hope. I mean, there’s nothing like sitting down with a group of people who are older than you and younger than you. And from all kinds of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds, and and having conversations about what life looks like to them. And and we do we really all just want the same thing. And so that’s what gives me hope is that more people are learning that and that propels us all forward in a positive way. Lindsay Recknell 28:42 I love it. And it’s amazing to me how often food comes up in a hope conversation I have to tell you, like we talk about food a lot on this show because because you’re right that imagery of everybody gathering together building community around sort of a central hub, but we all eat we all have memories around have great meals, joy, you know, had with friends and family and it does it feels very, very hopeful. So yeah, thank you very much for sharing your brilliance for sharing your, your hope with us and and your network. I mean, every time I have a conversation with you, I can just see that hopeful future that you’re building for yourself, for your people in your network. And for all of us listening. Tell us as we close out the show, tell us if anybody is inspired to get involved in Ren how can they do that? Unknown Speaker 29:32 So we’ve just actually set up a new website and it’s women investing now.ca And that’s, that’s the best way to reach us. And that will give you a direction to all of the things that we’re doing. And yeah, I we would love to hear from your listeners and from people who are excited to be hopeful and to find positive things to contribute to in the future and we’re always, always willing and excited to To hear more people’s stories and share where people are going, and thank you, Lindsey, for your great work that you’re doing and for having me on the podcast today. It’s a it’s a joy to talk to you. I just love it.
Lindsay Recknell 30:11 Well, thank you very much. The feeling is very much very, very mutual. It is we will link to your, your brand new website to your book, all of the things in the show notes. So anybody who’s interested, absolutely, please check it out there. Thank you, Liza, again for your time and look forward to continuing the conversation. Liza Rogers 30:30 Great. Thank you, Lindsay. Lindsay Recknell 30:32 Take care. Lindsay Recknell 30:36 I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of The Hope motivates action podcast. These episodes are a labor of love inspiring conversations with hopeful people make my heart happy. If you also love this episode, it would be amazing if you could go to Apple podcasts and leave a review five stars if you’re into it. It’s these reviews that encourage Apple to promote this podcast to their network and the more people that listen, the more hope we can spread into the world. Don’t forget to check out the show notes of this episode to find all the links to my guests books and other resources referenced in this episode. You’ll also find the link back to my website where you will find additional support and resources for you, your team and your community. I truly believe that the future will be better than today. By taking action over the things we can control and hearing from these guests on these episodes. I know that even more hopeful future is totally possible. I’m always looking for inspirational guests so if you or anyone you know would like to be a guest on the show please reach out you can find me on the contact form of my website at expert in hope calm or by email at Lindsay at expert in hope calm. When I was a teenager, my sisters were leaving the house to go out for the night. I always made it a point to remind them to call me if they need me. It was my way to tell them that I cared and would always be there for them. I’d love you to know the same so all of you listening out there Call me if you need me. Lindsay Recknell 31:54 Again. Thank you for your love and support of this podcast my work in hope and your intentional focus on making your future better than today. After all, hope without action is just a wish
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